Agnostic, NOT Atheist
by Jason Alan
It’s funny to me how some atheists or even theists call agnostics ‘lazy atheists’, when that statement in itself is lazy.
The people who say that obviously don’t know how hard it actually is to be agnostic. Most of us have come to this conclusion, or decision, after looking at so many sides of the argument, over many years or even decades of reading and hearing and thinking about so many of the possibilities.
There are thousands of gods that are or have been worshiped throughout human history. There has even been (and may still be), tribes that view airplanes as deities. Look it up if you like, they’re called ‘cargo cults’. While it is plainly (or planely? ha!) obvious to you and I that they are not objects of gods, these people did not or do not have a clear explanation of these seemingly magical objects, so they attempt to explain them the only way they know how.
Now, for the sake of argument, let’s break it down to the bare minimum, where there are only two possibilities:
1: There is a single creator who created the universe.
2: There is no creator, and the universe either created itself or was always here in some form or another.
I, as an agnostic, can objectively look at both sides and see that either is possible. One of them, I think, is more probable, but which one doesn’t even matter.
Let’s look at the first option from a perspective that we, as semi-civilized human beings at this particular point in time, can view through science, intelligent thought and deduction. We know that inside our bodies live bacteria. Lots of them. In Texas, we might say there’s a shitload of them. It’s a technical term. Now, let’s say, hypothetically, through either some cosmic twist or divine intervention, these bacteria not only begin to be self aware, but intelligent and capable of building and science and commerce. So, naturally, they would build their own versions of telescopes, right? Right.
What would they see? Considering how small they are compared to us, even though they wouldn’t see outside our bodies, they would see a vast universe, even if they were only able to view just a few centimeters outside the colon. So every single person would be a whole universe. And while we did not raise our hands and say “I shall now create thee, bacteria” and it was done, in a way, we were their creator. But we cannot communicate with them, and we did not purposefully create them, they simply exist because of us.
So, in order for a logical person to believe that there is a creator, or God, then that person would have to assume, given our knowledge of the world and how it works, that God did not purposefully create us, rather, we exist because of the universe, that is also him. For all we know, our entire universe could be the equivalent of a puddle of semen from an extremely advanced being. You may think ewww that’s gross, or whatever, but if you look at a drop of jizz under a microscope, you’ll see a world eerily similar to galaxies and solar systems. There are atoms in there, and an atom is made up of a bunch of particles, (hold onto your hats, ladies and gents) where a bunch of circular objects revolve around other circular objects. Sound familiar? Sit down, you’re thinking now. Sometimes it hurts at first.
On the other hand, there exists the possibility that there is no creator, that the universe has always existed, or that it came from nothing. Since I can’t wrap my tiny brain around how something could come from nothing, I’ll go with the former. That would mean that most likely, the big bang was something that happens over and over again. All matter is condensed through gravity into a tiny space, it gets to a certain point and explodes and expands. Eventually, it stops expanding and lies fairly dormant, then begins to contract, coming back to the point of that small space then BANG it happens all over again. This is a simplified version, the Cliff’s Notes, if you will, but I think you get the point.
Either way I see as logical points of view, even though they are somewhat opposed. I think what many atheists tend to do is focus on religion more than the concept of a creator. The creator doesn’t even have to be aware that we exist, let alone communicate with us or have some set of moral laws for us to abide by. And theists tend to focus on morals, saying the atheists have none, when obviously many atheists are good people who would never think of hurting anyone. You don’t have to believe in God or not believe to think that we should treat others how we would be wish to be treated.
If you really think about it and the many possibilities of what a creator of our universe could be, not just some dude sitting in the clouds who snapped his fingers and there we were, then maybe you wouldn’t be an atheist anymore. Or a theist, for that matter. You could be a single bacteria, worshiping a body that not only has no clue that you exist, but doesn’t give an eight of a shit about you.
So, being that there are an infinite number of possibilities and accepting that I am not a superhuman ultragenius know-it-all, I am agnostic, NOT atheist, and not even agnostic atheist. Just agnostic.
Now, discuss. I would love to read your input.
I mostly agree. My entire viewpoint could not fit in a comment. I have enough trouble fitting it in my blog.
Yes, the subject matter may very well be as vast as the universe itself.
ha! My thoughts exactly- I was going to post the same thing 🙂
Has there always been something, or did this something, including the ‘creator’, come from nothing? It is all so implausible yet here we are trying to figure IT out before the whole thing goes up in smoke. Sometimes I would like to know where IT comes from so I can register complaints about all the fucked up shit and say thanks for beauty in all its forms. Other than that I try not get my bollocks in a twist over it and just enjoy the ride. Hope this post generates the discussion it deserves. Thanks.
Stop and smell the roses, eh? What a novel idea. Thanks for dropping by.
The fact that the universe exists doesn’t really surprise me. However when I think of what it would take for organic materials to be created from inorganic materials (trust me, it is extremely complicated, involving individual elements to at the very least, come together, experience an electric shock, and then form molecules together that become RNA or DNA), and then we see the leap to very advanced, complicated, intelligent beings, I tend to believe in the hand of a deity.
Also, there are cults in SE Asia who believe that their founders will come back from the dead or overseas and bring tons of treasure. How wacky can you get?
If you consider that, according to people smarter than me, the universe has been around almost 14 billion years since the big bang, and that it took an estimated 9 or 10 billion for the first single celled organisms to emerge, plus add in the sheer volume of the observable universe, something was bound to happen eventually. Which it did, whether by chance or design, we are here to argue about it.
yeah, but all those elements, getting together to form all those molecules, and then those molecules coming together in the right pattern to form RNA and then DNA, and at some point in all this a membrame is supposed to form over these orgainisms? It just doesn’t seem right to me, especially when you consider that if one factor of our planet’s orbit, temperature, distance from the sun, gravity, axis, climate, etc., were off, we wouldn’t be discussing this.
Not necessarily. We could possibly exist in a different form. Life has a way of adapting.
i still think it’s more likely that some creator deity had a hand in everything than it was all a random accident.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but it’s more complicated than just saying it’s just a random accident. There are many factors to consider.
and it’s those many factors that strengthen my faith…and allow me to think that the worst thing to happen to me in the afterlife is a case of acid reflux (Jews don’t believe in hell).
That’s a huge part of what I don’t understand about some religions. Hell. Especially since it’s for people that simply don’t believe something. It’s barbaric. Thanks as usual for the discussion.
you’re welcome. and don’t you think hell would make more sense if it was only for people who commit heinous crimes, regardless of religion?
Exactly my point. But in many beliefs, you can rape, murder and do whatever, as long as you ask for forgiveness. Great way to teach people to be good, huh?
you know the calvinist theory that we’re selected for heaven or hell before birth? it’s even worse: you either become apathetic and resigned, or you do whatever the hell you want without worrying about the consequences.
Never heard of that. Sounds pretty nutty.
it is, but then again it hails from switzerland. what do you expect from a place where the banks are perfect for rich people avoiding taxes and criminals hiding their loot?
Great post pretty much with you on this one, Call the universe a God but everything is so vast I doubt any God contributed but even superstition evolves right?
The universe seems to be just one big organism, a great machine that we perceive to be in the middle of, in a size perspective at least. But we could conceivably be on the low or the high end. There could be vast universes inside of quarks. As our technology progresses, we keep finding smaller particles and keep seeing further into the universe. There seems to be no end at all, and that delights and fascinates me.
I believe in science, evolution, choice. But sometimes things happen to me that feel preordained or orchestrated by something higher. Could just be the way things happen. My sister, an atheist, says it’s coincidence and nothing more. I sit on the fence. Some days I lean more one way than the other.
As long as you’re good, we’re good 😉
A provocative post, Jason. You provide a good argument for agnosticism. You’re right, my head hurts a little from thinking. I don’t think you’ll ever get your proof about whether or not there is a creator. I think you’re right in that atheists focus more on religion than on the existence of a creator. This is possibly because religion accepts a creator on blind faith. Religions don’t ask for proof. There’s always the possibility that there is a greater force, something bigger than us, but it’s not our creator. Sometimes, I believe in a higher power, and it doesn’t have anything to do religion. Please don’t judge.
Why would I judge? You’re thinking, and that’s all I ask.
You always make me think and that’s a very good thing.
I don’t make you think, you make the choice to think, and I applaud you. I know you weren’t being literal but…
Thanks. I’ll never give up on the thinking thing. 😉
Very good argument, Jason. I tend to agree. I think the probability of there being a creator who is aware or gives a rats about us is very low, let alone that he also created a rule book for us. I like the bacteria-in-the-gut analogy!
Thanks. Some people think of God as having to be a certain way, but if there is one, there are so many possibilities.
Absolutely fantastic argument. I consider myself an atheist… but I might have to put a bit more thought into it, now. My opinion is in danger.
This is supposed to be a good thing, right?
Yes, it is a good thing. What it breaks down to is that we should all put a lot of thought into what we believe before we stand so firm on it. If you are either religious or atheist because that’s how you were raised, then you didn’t put much thought into it, right?
I’ve read all about what atheism is and I know most everything that there is to know about it, but can I truly say that I am an informed, knowledgeable atheist when it’s all I know? That makes me as bad, in many ways, as the intransigent theists that annoy me so much.
*Rubs head* My brain hurts… and I thank you.
Haha you’re welcome. We have the ability to think, it’s a waste if we don’t use it.
I have spent such a long time reading and thinking about religion and have been agnostic for over 10 years. I thought this post was fantastically written and considered. Like you, I see the possibilities in both sides of the absolute argument and whilst my logic also dictates that one explanation is more probable than the other, faith and belief is a powerful force.
I agree. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts.
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